[OffCenter]

docweathers, on 07 September 2012 - 08:18 PM, said:

There also is reported to be a problem with the paper acting as a flux in the clay. Has anyone noticed this and dealt with it?

Since, as Chris pointed out, paper burns out at such a low temp, I can't imagine that being a problem. I guess it would depend on the kind of paper used because even after the paper burns out it may leave behind VERY tiny "byproducts" but in the case of some paper that would be kaolin which would be the opposite of a flux. I've never had a problem of any kind with paper clay.

Jim

[OffCenter]

Chris Campbell, on 07 September 2012 - 11:25 PM, said:

Paper acting as flux seems a bit strange as it all burns out so early in the firing .... under 500 F not much is happening flux wise, is it?

As to coloring the paper clay, I experimented with it once with Southern Ice and the details are above 1/2 way down this page ....

http://www.ccpottery...ay_vessels.html

I did not notice any color deviations due to the paper ... even in wet form it all looked the same, and fired the same. Southern Ice is incredibly easy to use with a bit of paper in it.

Thanks for posting that. I'd consider 1 roll of toilet paper for 22 lbs of clay a lot of paper. Nice to see that that much works so well in Southern Ice. A bit off the subject but I'm fascinated by pieces like Maritime Blues. Is the background clay and the meandering steam of color the same clay? Is that Southern Ice?

Jim

[OffCenter]

jo4550, on 07 September 2012 - 08:02 PM, said:

Hi Jim
They do make a cone 6 Southern Ice. It is called Cool Ice. It is said be as good as the Cone 10 version.

Johanna

Johanna, Thanks VERY Much! Where can I get it?

Jim

[Chris Campbell]

>As to coloring the paper clay, I experimented with it once with Southern Ice and the details are above 1/2 way down this page ....

http://www.ccpottery...ay_vessels.html

I did not notice any color deviations due to the paper ... even in wet form it all looked the same, and fired the same. Southern Ice is incredibly easy to use with a bit of paper in it.
[/quote]

Thanks for posting that. I'd consider 1 roll of toilet paper for 22 lbs of clay a lot of paper. Nice to see that that much works so well in Southern Ice. A bit off the subject but I'm fascinated by pieces like Maritime Blues. Is the background clay and the meandering steam of color the same clay? Is that Southern Ice?

Jim
[/quote]


I agree that one roll is a lot if you want to carve or stamp on it. I never did get back to doing more tests with the colored paper porcelain ... short attention span issues.
Yes, all of the work is made with Southern Ice which I custom color about once a year ... a week of mixing the base colors and testing them with each other before I store them. The colored clays lose their translucence but it makes a nice contrast to the pure white.

Attached File(s)

•  Mixing colors.png (167.39K)
  Number of downloads: 6

[KathleenHamlet]

 vase2.jpg (26.46K)
Number of downloads: 27  blackberry 047.jpg (353.62K)
Number of downloads: 36Jim, Im so frustrated that Im ready to give up and go to darker porcelain! All of the porcelains Ive seen lately seem very dark even the grollegs. I thought a press might help with warping and evenness. I seem to be losing alot in the kiln as well. I do laminated porcelain. I am now making small blocks and taking thin slices from them to laminate over a base of colored paper clay. Thanks Kathleen  blackberry 050.jpg (375.09K)
Number of downloads: 29

OffCenter, on 08 September 2012 - 09:03 AM, said:

KathleenHamlet, on 07 September 2012 - 03:08 PM, said:

Jim, I also use Frost with paper in a manner similar to Chris...glad to hear that Im not the only one to experience such cracking! What I discovered is that when I sintered the piece (fired to 019^) and soaked it in water to sand, I had blowouts...I believe they are paper related. I can relate to your cracking problems as mine also always occur just before bone dry...very frustrating..I was planning to build a hand ram press to help with this problem.

Hi Kathleen. Yeah, that's the way Frost works. You check a piece out when it is almost bone dry and think, Great! it's gonna make it, then look at it a couple of hours later and there's a hairline crack running across it. Your process in intriguing. What do you make? Any chance of posting pics? I hope the ram press works but I doubt that it will because I've found that no amount of working and compressing Frost prevents cracking.

Jim

[OffCenter]

KathleenHamlet, on 08 September 2012 - 04:28 PM, said:

vase2.jpg blackberry 047.jpgJim, Im so frustrated that Im ready to give up and go to darker porcelain! All of the porcelains Ive seen lately seem very dark even the grollegs. I thought a press might help with warping and evenness. I seem to be losing alot in the kiln as well. I do laminated porcelain. I am now making small blocks and taking thin slices from them to laminate over a base of colored paper clay. Thanks Kathleen blackberry 050.jpg

OffCenter, on 08 September 2012 - 09:03 AM, said:

KathleenHamlet, on 07 September 2012 - 03:08 PM, said:

Jim, I also use Frost with paper in a manner similar to Chris...glad to hear that Im not the only one to experience such cracking! What I discovered is that when I sintered the piece (fired to 019^) and soaked it in water to sand, I had blowouts...I believe they are paper related. I can relate to your cracking problems as mine also always occur just before bone dry...very frustrating..I was planning to build a hand ram press to help with this problem.

Hi Kathleen. Yeah, that's the way Frost works. You check a piece out when it is almost bone dry and think, Great! it's gonna make it, then look at it a couple of hours later and there's a hairline crack running across it. Your process in intriguing. What do you make? Any chance of posting pics? I hope the ram press works but I doubt that it will because I've found that no amount of working and compressing Frost prevents cracking.

Jim

Kathleen, sorry that you're getting frustrated. What you're doing is so good that is is well worth whatever it takes to solve the problems you're having with the clay. I could easily be wrong but I don't think a ram press is going to solve problems with warping and cracking. I also can't see paper causing blow outs unless there's way too much and/or it isn't evenly mixed into the clay. When I potted in Denver I laminated colored porcelain and never had any problems with it. I used a porcelain made by Mile Hi Ceramics but that was almost 40 years ago so I don't remember the name. Someone just informed me above that they make a cone 6 Southern Ice called Cool Ice. If that's really available, you might want to check that out because Southern Ice is just as white and translucent as Frost and a hell of a lot easier to work with. Chris is obviously the expert on colored porcelain so maybe she can help you. Good luck.

Jim

[KathleenHamlet]

Thanks for the kind words, Jim! Southern ice and Cool ice are only available from Australia or Seattle Pottery Supply (and they are out) I buy as much Clay as I can afford which is usually 50 # at a time. I was trying to figure out why the blowouts and paper was all I could think of. I was using the dollmakers technique of sintering and then polishing the surface. perhaps they are air bubbles...anyway it was not quite funny at the time...pieces were popping out like crazy! Im not giving up on clay..just cant afford this kind of loss rate.

OffCenter, on 08 September 2012 - 04:49 PM, said:

KathleenHamlet, on 08 September 2012 - 04:28 PM, said:

vase2.jpg blackberry 047.jpgJim, Im so frustrated that Im ready to give up and go to darker porcelain! All of the porcelains Ive seen lately seem very dark even the grollegs. I thought a press might help with warping and evenness. I seem to be losing alot in the kiln as well. I do laminated porcelain. I am now making small blocks and taking thin slices from them to laminate over a base of colored paper clay. Thanks Kathleen blackberry 050.jpg

OffCenter, on 08 September 2012 - 09:03 AM, said:

KathleenHamlet, on 07 September 2012 - 03:08 PM, said:

Jim, I also use Frost with paper in a manner similar to Chris...glad to hear that Im not the only one to experience such cracking! What I discovered is that when I sintered the piece (fired to 019^) and soaked it in water to sand, I had blowouts...I believe they are paper related. I can relate to your cracking problems as mine also always occur just before bone dry...very frustrating..I was planning to build a hand ram press to help with this problem.

Hi Kathleen. Yeah, that's the way Frost works. You check a piece out when it is almost bone dry and think, Great! it's gonna make it, then look at it a couple of hours later and there's a hairline crack running across it. Your process in intriguing. What do you make? Any chance of posting pics? I hope the ram press works but I doubt that it will because I've found that no amount of working and compressing Frost prevents cracking.

Jim

Kathleen, sorry that you're getting frustrated. What you're doing is so good that is is well worth whatever it takes to solve the problems you're having with the clay. I could easily be wrong but I don't think a ram press is going to solve problems with warping and cracking. I also can't see paper causing blow outs unless there's way too much and/or it isn't evenly mixed into the clay. When I potted in Denver I laminated colored porcelain and never had any problems with it. I used a porcelain made by Mile Hi Ceramics but that was almost 40 years ago so I don't remember the name. Someone just informed me above that they make a cone 6 Southern Ice called Cool Ice. If that's really available, you might want to check that out because Southern Ice is just as white and translucent as Frost and a hell of a lot easier to work with. Chris is obviously the expert on colored porcelain so maybe she can help you. Good luck.

Jim

[jo4550]

OffCenter, on 09 September 2012 - 12:31 AM, said:

jo4550, on 07 September 2012 - 08:02 PM, said:

Hi Jim
They do make a cone 6 Southern Ice. It is called Cool Ice. It is said be as good as the Cone 10 version.

Johanna

Johanna, Thanks VERY Much! Where can I get it?

Jim

Hi Jiim
As I live in Australia I deal with the manufacturers or their outlets. The manufacturer is Clayworks. Contact Max on max.clay@clayworksaustralia.com and see who carries Cool Ice in the States.

Regards
Johanna

[OffCenter]

jo4550, on 08 September 2012 - 10:07 PM, said:

OffCenter, on 09 September 2012 - 12:31 AM, said:

jo4550, on 07 September 2012 - 08:02 PM, said:

Hi Jim
They do make a cone 6 Southern Ice. It is called Cool Ice. It is said be as good as the Cone 10 version.

Johanna

Johanna, Thanks VERY Much! Where can I get it?

Jim

Hi Jiim
As I live in Australia I deal with the manufacturers or their outlets. The manufacturer is Clayworks. Contact Max on max.clay@clayworksaustralia.com and see who carries Cool Ice in the States.

Regards
Johanna

Thanks again!

Jim

[Chris Campbell]

Kathleen

If I understand what you are trying to do ... It's probably one of the most difficult challenges around so that's why you are getting so frustrated.
From what I understand ... You are trying to cut thin slices from a colored block and laminate it onto paper clay. You are dealing with extremely different shrinkage rates that will affect every firing and result quite naturally in cracks, bloats, breaks and everything else. No getting around the fact that the two things are on different paths!
In order to make your idea work, you might have to add the colors to the paper clay, not pure clay. This way the shrinkage rates will match and they will work as a team rather than against each other. Check out the previously mentioned page on my site for some of my results.

If I misunderstood and the colored clay is paper too, then you just have to slow down ... When laminating two pieces, I roll them both out then let them rest on a damp towel for at least an hour before trying to connect them. This gives the clays a chance to relax and retract alone before they have to merge. I get best results when I leave them on a damp towel overnight covered with plastic then laminate in the morning.

[KathleenHamlet]

Thanks Chris! Good idea to let them rest....that i dont do-too impatient, I guess. The paperclay is also colored. I was using big blocks (like you do) but that was tying up too much clay at one time. And I was frustrated with the cracking -I knew that it is difficult to slice cleanly with paper in it. Its also fun to make the little canes and mix them up. The warping is also a big issue. For awhile I was mixing frost with other clays. The most promising was the grolleg based clay from Matt and Daves. Unfortunately, it didnt come to market. On Monday morning, I am going to buy my local supplier's grolleg. I am building a small hand operated ram press to help with warping and unevenness. ought to be interesting! Like you, I started with colored clay and never wanted to do anything else! Thanks for the help...Kathleen

If I understand what you are trying to do ... It's probably one of the most difficult challenges around so that's why you are getting so frustrated.
From what I understand ... You are trying to cut thin slices from a colored block and laminate it onto paper clay. You are dealing with extremely different shrinkage rates that will affect every firing and result quite naturally in cracks, bloats, breaks and everything else. No getting around the fact that the two things are on different paths!
In order to make your idea work, you might have to add the colors to the paper clay, not pure clay. This way the shrinkage rates will match and they will work as a team rather than against each other. Check out the previously mentioned page on my site for some of my results.

If I misunderstood and the colored clay is paper too, then you just have to slow down ... When laminating two pieces, I roll them both out then let them rest on a damp towel for at least an hour before trying to connect them. This gives the clays a chance to relax and retract alone before they have to merge. I get best results when I leave them on a damp towel overnight covered with plastic then laminate in the morning.
[/quote]