[Lucille Oka]

Phill said- "I realize it does hurt peoples feelings and no one likes that. But many people cannot take it? I completely disagree. If they can't take it, they shouldn't be in the profession. It is not hurting someone's feelings for the sake of hurting them, it is for the sake of helping them make better pots. that is the whole purpose of a critique. If you take out the parts that hurt and just give them cake for a critique, you have just hurt them more than they might realize. People are able to get up after they fall. It is part of the growing process and part of life. Like a spanking for a child, it hurts but it corrects. It doesn't mean it wasn't out of love."

Yes Phill, 'people will get up after they fall'. But I will not knock them down. I want folks to love the craft and not be frustrated while they are growing in the skills or when they meet a challenge. I don't know if you noticed but not everyone has the same purpose. Some look for ways to knock others down for no other reason than they can do it and do it anonymously. No, I will not be a party to it.

[Matt Oz]

As to the original topic, I think one problem is the members gallery itself, I find it rather clunky to use. It's nice to have though.


If you want an actual critique of your work, I think posting a photo or link in the forum would be the best option. Of course taking a decent photograph is an art unto itself.

[Frederik-W]

Lucille Oka, on 27 February 2012 - 02:38 AM, said:

There are so many unpleasant pieces to look at in the gallery that they are a waste of clay, money and time. Piece #--- really needed more work done to it. The glazes do not suit the piece and the texture was totally unsuitable. The sprigging was poorly attached and in an unskilled manner. This potter is so unskilled that they really should reclaim their clay pieces before they decide to fire.*

Lucille you make a point with this example of criticism - i.e. some criticism can hurt. Most of the criticism above are fine I think, but to tell someone he/she is "so unskilled that they really should reclaim their clay pieces before they decide to fire" is a bit rough. It can be put better, but it is still an honest opinion and a valid one.
I am sure not many people will criticise in such a way though, and if they do, I believe there are enough good angels here who will come to the rescue of a someone whom they think is being unfairly criticised. (I will do my best too).
So I still prefer such comments above ignoring fellow potters.

[phill]

Lucille Oka, on 26 February 2012 - 09:21 PM, said:

Yes Phill, 'people will get up after they fall'. But I will not knock them down. I want folks to love the craft and not be frustrated while they are growing in the skills or when they meet a challenge. I don't know if you noticed but not everyone has the same purpose. Some look for ways to knock others down for no other reason than they can do it and do it anonymously. No, I will not be a party to it.

Just because you knock someone down in a critique doesn't mean they are going to hate pottery or even be frustrated with it. If it was too easy I don't think anyone would make pots; people generally love at least a little bit of a challenge. I think your opting out of critiquing work is a poor and detrimental choice for the art world and pottery as a whole. I don't recall anyone here on this forum, nor elsewhere in any of my art classes or experiences someone who is just beating another down for the fun of it. Perhaps you have had a personal experience with it which is too bad. No, don't be a part of hurting people for fun. But I encourage you to be a part of honestly critiquing work for the betterment of pottery and all art.

[phill]

Matt Oz, on 27 February 2012 - 07:22 AM, said:

As to the original topic, I think one problem is the members gallery itself, I find it rather clunky to use. It's nice to have though.

i agree, not the most user-friendly.

[trina]

I agree, plus I did read your blog!Nice site. Trina

[Lucille Oka]

phill, on 03 March 2012 - 07:53 AM, said:

Lucille Oka, on 26 February 2012 - 09:21 PM, said:

Yes Phill, 'people will get up after they fall'. But I will not knock them down. I want folks to love the craft and not be frustrated while they are growing in the skills or when they meet a challenge. I don't know if you noticed but not everyone has the same purpose. Some look for ways to knock others down for no other reason than they can do it and do it anonymously. No, I will not be a party to it.

Just because you knock someone down in a critique doesn't mean they are going to hate pottery or even be frustrated with it. If it was too easy I don't think anyone would make pots; people generally love at least a little bit of a challenge. I think your opting out of critiquing work is a poor and detrimental choice for the art world and pottery as a whole. I don't recall anyone here on this forum, nor elsewhere in any of my art classes or experiences someone who is just beating another down for the fun of it. Perhaps you have had a personal experience with it which is too bad. No, don't be a part of hurting people for fun. But I encourage you to be a part of honestly critiquing work for the betterment of pottery and all art.

No.

[atanzey]

Phill, some of us know that we come across as critical and hurtful even if we don't mean to, so we abstain from commenting. Some of us just don't have anything to say, or don't think what we have to say would be helpful. Anyone who chooses not to critique should not be told that they are making a 'poor and detrimental choice' = it's their own choice. If you want to critique, don't do so, but please don't be critical of those who don't!

[phill]

atanzey, on 03 March 2012 - 03:56 PM, said:

Anyone who chooses not to critique should not be told that they are making a 'poor and detrimental choice' = it's their own choice. If you want to critique, don't do so, but please don't be critical of those who don't!

I am going to be critical. I agree with you about it being a choice to critique. Of course it is. But when you choose not to critique because you don't want to hurt someone's feelings is missing the point. There are ways to be critical but not mean. I am not saying to be mean about it. I am saying to be critical. If we didn't critique work, then everyone/nobody would have great work. If there are no standards and no critical atmosphere, then pottery shouldn't exist as an art/craft. I am telling Lucille that I disagree with her because I personally don't want that sort of thinking in the pottery world. I think her view is, in the long run, detrimental to pottery as a whole. I believe critique is necessary, and I believe everyone does it whether formally or informally, in public or in their heads.

And it's okay that Lucille doesn't agree. Without differing opinions, the world would be boring. I am glad that Lucille is standing behind what she said--it shows me that she truly believes what she said and wasn't just saying it on a whim. We can agree to disagree. But I am not going to disagree quietly.

[Frederik-W]

People who are to afraid to hurt someone's feelings and then not comment at all (i.e. ignoring) fellow potters work,
are in some way actually sponging on others who stick their necks out and provide critique.
Someone else need to do what they consider the "dirty" work, because they cannot deny that we do in fact need criticism.
But they want to wash their hands from this process in order to seek the moral high ground i.e. they are not hurting anyone.

We are all part of a community and we need criticism in order to encourage other to do better or praise those who we think are doing it right.

I wonder of those who are not willing to comment or critique, if they ever want or try to get feedback on their own work.
Are they consistent in their argument?
If you refuse to comment on fellow potters work, do you deserve any comment yourself ?
If you think you do, does it not smack a bit of hypocracy ?

PS: If I step on a few toes here, so be it, for the sake of the argument.

[trina]

Maybe we need a gallery for work that we want critiqued...I am happy if members comment acknowledge or critique anything i put up. I find the gallery a useful source of info not just in terms of the work put up but the photos and style in which work is displayed. I also believe that people should do whatever they feel comforable doing. I comment not critique on things i like, ask questions about things that interest me and certainly try hard not to hurt anyones feelings. Ah now i feel all warm and fuzzy again......T

[teardrop]

What is needed in the gallery comment section are those little red minus "reputation" marks and the associated >anonymity< that goes along with them.

Much like the one someone anonymously tagged yer very >honest< post with, phill!

As long as folks have to stand behind their words they will be shy in offering critique. However, give them an anonymous way to tell you that you suck and those folks who have no balls will simply be all over it.

much respect for calling a spade a spade, guys. Much.

teardrop (-10..and counting...LOL)

[trina]

teardrop, on 04 March 2012 - 09:27 AM, said:

What is needed in the gallery comment section are those little red minus "reputation" marks and the associated >anonymity< that goes along with them.

Much like the one someone anonymously tagged yer very >honest< post with, phill!

As long as folks have to stand behind their words they will be shy in offering critique. However, give them an anonymous way to tell you that you suck and those folks who have no balls will simply be all over it.

much respect for calling a spade a spade, guys. Much.

teardrop (-10..and counting...LOL)

Hi teardrop, I just read your post and thought you were kidding with the minus point things and then just looked at your profile, what the hell, you aren't kidding.... what is wrong with people! I invite anyone to give me minus points as well, if we all have them they will become even more meaningless. T

[Frederik-W]

Teardrop I am very jealous about your "minus" reputation !
I am trying so hard to stir up trouble and mine is still "neutral". That is really an insult to me.
I should try to be even more provocative.

[Kabe]

ayjay, on 14 February 2012 - 02:13 PM, said:

Marcia Selsor, on 14 February 2012 - 05:33 PM, said:

Sometimes the images people post are humongous and one can see them except one inch at a time.
Marcia

It's annoying but quite common on the net.

Press *Ctrl and -* (that's a minus sign) simultaneously and the picture will shrink each time you press.

press *Ctrl & Zero" to return to normal size.

*Ctrl & +* will make things larger too.

Thank you! Seeing I am about as adept on a computer as I am at juggling, while riding a unicycle on a tight rope blind folded. I find this bit of information to be a god sent Happy firing Kabe

[canyon fox]

ayjay, on 14 February 2012 - 12:13 PM, said:

Marcia Selsor, on 14 February 2012 - 05:33 PM, said:

Sometimes the images people post are humongous and one can see them except one inch at a time.
Marcia

It's annoying but quite common on the net.

Press *Ctrl and -* (that's a minus sign) simultaneously and the picture will shrink each time you press.

press *Ctrl & Zero" to return to normal size.

*Ctrl & +* will make things larger too.

Hi all,
Just wanted to ask for help with viewing the gallery. Since a couple of days ago I can't see the images in the gallery (some of them, I can see all the text around them but the images) and some images over the names - the avatars(again, some of them). And I love to look through the gallery, thank you all who posted there !
Any help?
thank you!

[Matt Oz]

canyon fox, on 14 March 2012 - 01:51 PM, said:

ayjay, on 14 February 2012 - 12:13 PM, said:

Marcia Selsor, on 14 February 2012 - 05:33 PM, said:

Sometimes the images people post are humongous and one can see them except one inch at a time.
Marcia

It's annoying but quite common on the net.

Press *Ctrl and -* (that's a minus sign) simultaneously and the picture will shrink each time you press.

press *Ctrl & Zero" to return to normal size.

*Ctrl & +* will make things larger too.

Hi all,
Just wanted to ask for help with viewing the gallery. Since a couple of days ago I can't see the images in the gallery (some of them, I can see all the text around them but the images) and some images over the names - the avatars(again, some of them). And I love to look through the gallery, thank you all who posted there !
Any help?
thank you!

The images disappeared when the server crashed recently, I'm guessing they will have to be re-uploaded.

[canyon fox]

Matt Oz, on 14 March 2012 - 01:00 PM, said:

canyon fox, on 14 March 2012 - 01:51 PM, said:

ayjay, on 14 February 2012 - 12:13 PM, said:

Marcia Selsor, on 14 February 2012 - 05:33 PM, said:

Sometimes the images people post are humongous and one can see them except one inch at a time.
Marcia

It's annoying but quite common on the net.

Press *Ctrl and -* (that's a minus sign) simultaneously and the picture will shrink each time you press.

press *Ctrl & Zero" to return to normal size.

*Ctrl & +* will make things larger too.

Hi all,
Just wanted to ask for help with viewing the gallery. Since a couple of days ago I can't see the images in the gallery (some of them, I can see all the text around them but the images) and some images over the names - the avatars(again, some of them). And I love to look through the gallery, thank you all who posted there !
Any help?
thank you!

The images disappeared when the server crashed recently, I'm guessing they will have to be re-uploaded.

Matt Oz, thank you for your reply, I didn't know about the crash, thought something wrong with my settings..

[JBaymore]

Yes, there was a major crash over the weekend and the techs were working really hard to fix things.

Computers are great when they work OK...... but they can be a nightmare when they don't.

best,

....................john

[Diana Ferreira]

I had no computer for more than a month and had no energy to try and get here with my blackberry. But wow, I missed a lot!

People. Please read my OP. My question was: "why is there no comments in the gallery."

Not: Why do you guys on your high horses think that every comment has to be a critique?

What about a simple 'I love your glaze, shape, ... (what ever you like about the piece) And if you think that the piece is dog shite, do not enlarge the image ... lol

Honestly. Seriously. this is a laugh. (Ok, I have to admit that I am pooped. I have orders coming out of my ears after a very good Designer Week with lots of local and International orders and have been working a 7 day week since the beginning of January except for the week that I was crawling around on my hands and knees after a very bad back complaint that got me in ER and Morphine and what not .)

You guys are fighting about the merits of getting down that high horse to comment on some newbie's work. You were once (many moons ago) a newbie. But you know what? sometimes encouragement is good. Stop being arses and think that you are to high and mighty to acknowledge some idiot that is trying to dare play with clay. I mean, how dare they?

Well, that is how a lot of you are coming across.

I know where I am in ceramics. But then I am lucky enough to share studio space with other potters and have contact with more that live in my city. Peers that I idolise and look up to. and if they buy my work for their private collections, that says enough for me.


What I am trying to say is this. A lot of you are spending a lot of time on this site. Use some of that time constructively in being a little bit more human and give. Some old guy gave you encouragement years and eons ago. Pass it forward!

Now I am off to look at the gallery and yes, I will comment on stuff that I like.

Edited to add: I have a major fail on visiting the gallery ... Could only look at a couple of images. the rest just refuse to open. Ugh.