[teardrop]

Redstreak, on 06 March 2012 - 01:11 PM, said:

Hello Fellow Potters,

I've just joined this site and feel the need to post to this thread.

That's one very honest post, IMO.

So then....does anyone have any idea why this person took the time to say in their profile that they didn't feel welcome here AFTER ONE POST?

[phill]

teardrop, on 15 March 2012 - 07:18 AM, said:

Redstreak, on 06 March 2012 - 01:11 PM, said:

Hello Fellow Potters,

I've just joined this site and feel the need to post to this thread.

That's one very honest post, IMO.

So then....does anyone have any idea why this person took the time to say in their profile that they didn't feel welcome here AFTER ONE POST?

i don't understand what you're talking about

[teardrop]

phill, on 15 March 2012 - 09:19 AM, said:

i don't understand what you're talking about

phill....

I went to this person's profile page and this was the comment they left there after making one post.

"Sign me a potter who had thought that this was a community worth joining, only to find that new members have zero value"

I saw no above board comments that would warrant such a response....so it just made me wonder "why".

jus' sayin'....

teardrop

[Prokopp]

People join and leave forums all the time, so what? What were we all supposed to do, acknowledge this persons great genius after one post? They seem a little flighty to me.
People don't respond to my posts either, but so what? I learn, I contribute what I can, and that's it. I don't think people here are unfriendly or unhelpful, but they are sure are snobby. It's like being back in high school, you have to be a part of their little 'clay clique" before they will grace your post with a reply.
I keep reading how friendly they are here, I wonder when I will see evidence of that?

[trina]

Prokopp, on 15 March 2012 - 03:09 PM, said:

People join and leave forums all the time, so what? What were we all supposed to do, acknowledge this persons great genius after one post? They seem a little flighty to me.
People don't respond to my posts either, but so what? I learn, I contribute what I can, and that's it. I don't think people here are unfriendly or unhelpful, but they are sure are snobby. It's like being back in high school, you have to be a part of their little 'clay clique" before they will grace your post with a reply.
I keep reading how friendly they are here, I wonder when I will see evidence of that?

You are LOVED! T

[phill]

Prokopp, on 15 March 2012 - 02:09 PM, said:

People join and leave forums all the time, so what? What were we all supposed to do, acknowledge this persons great genius after one post? They seem a little flighty to me.
People don't respond to my posts either, but so what? I learn, I contribute what I can, and that's it. I don't think people here are unfriendly or unhelpful, but they are sure are snobby. It's like being back in high school, you have to be a part of their little 'clay clique" before they will grace your post with a reply.
I keep reading how friendly they are here, I wonder when I will see evidence of that?

Sorry you feel that way. I am sure I have contributed to that. I apologize and hope you will forgive any actions that have been offensive in an exclusive manner. Hi Prokopp. My name is Phill and I am a potter from Minnesota and I am temporarily living in Boston MA. Nice to meet you and glad you are posting.

PS - This is post #100!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hooray!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Pres]

Prokopp, on 15 March 2012 - 03:09 PM, said:

People join and leave forums all the time, so what? What were we all supposed to do, acknowledge this persons great genius after one post? They seem a little flighty to me.
People don't respond to my posts either, but so what? I learn, I contribute what I can, and that's it. I don't think people here are unfriendly or unhelpful, but they are sure are snobby. It's like being back in high school, you have to be a part of their little 'clay clique" before they will grace your post with a reply.
I keep reading how friendly they are here, I wonder when I will see evidence of that?

Strange, but I have never felt ignored or treated snobby or unfriendly here. I really don't have a thick skin or am over tolerant, really quite insecure, so I find it difficult to believe that you feel that there is an unfriendly stuck up attitude here. Stick around, it is worth staying for since as you say you learn an immense amount from the post of so many others here.

[TJR]

I am new to the forum as well. I do not feel intimidated and I am really enjoying the conversation. In the short time I have been posting, I have met some great people[electronically]. Sometimes I say things that I think may be taken the wrong way, so lately I have been careful not to offend. I also am aware that I have a lot of experience in ceramics and try to help others less experienced. I feel that there are not any dumb questions, but sometimes I am amazed at the length of time people will spend to help others. I find this uplifting. Sometimes I put things out there and don't get a response, but I don't get offended by this. I wish I could figure out a simple way to post images as this would help me with my posts.
TJR.

[teardrop]

heya TJR....

What is happening when you try to upload pics? Is there an error message/problem with yer photo....or is it the overall process of how to upload you don't understand?

would love to help ya figure it out if possible as I know more about computers than ceramics....LOL:lol:

teardrop

[Dinah]

I think it's interesting to read through a series of posts on a thread. Sometimes I feel able to jump in; mostly not if I've read some good responses and solid solutions. I should be more proactive in giving these replies a + sign for encouragement. I think that's what it's for....

Feelings are tricksy areas to parse in online discussions. No one ever wins an argument. No one. You've posted a strong opinion, there's no body-language to read. Also not even in real time. Tricksy. I tend to shy away from I.M.A. Ranter. I'm here on a Tuesday night which is unusual for me as I try to limit my time here to Sunday afternoons.

TJR would you consider becoming a Mentor in the Potters Council Mentoring program. Some folks are keen to have some 1 2 1 chat phone or online. I've been helping match folks up. And any others of you out there would you please consider as well? Check it out. Contact Carolyn Dorr for any questions on signing up. She's in the main PC office in Ohio. Stop by the Potters Council Booth in Seattle, if you're attending. I'd be happy to chat about all sorts of stuff.

I'm sorry that some folks who don't give this forum more of a chance, loudly proclaim their irritation in flame mode. Not cool at all, but then again we all get our dander up. There are sooo many folks in PC. Someone will help you. Stick around. Get the feel of the place. Sometimes you've got to read/acknowledge snobby as a potter who has spent a long time developing and honing their skills and contacts. They do speak a different language from Newbies. Fact. Sometimes irritation leaks through when yet another basic question is posted about an easily avoidable disaster. Like not placing witness cones packs (oops I forgot to do this, is it important?)in each and every firing top to bottom so you can understand the heatwork in your kiln, and not rely on the digital reader. Look at the current Ceramics Monthly April 2012 backcover advert for Skutt kilns. How many witness cones did you count in Tom Turner's kiln? And I dare say he's been firing kilns since snakes could walk.

[teardrop]

Yes...attitudes and perspectives are funny things. Ceramics Monthly is a great example.

I read a comment in the Letters section of the March issue (At what Price?) that illustrates well how differently folks see all of this. Like some posts here, the dichotomy between what some feel is worthy and what they see as total crap is infinite. This writer complained that the Feb issue was more like a "Crafts" magazine rather than a "ceramics" offering...and had general disdain for the publication and the way they seemingly (in their eyes) >sold out< to a lesser style/ability/intent (Crafts) and ignored the beauty of "Art". (my reading of the peice anyway)

What was funny was WE....as noobs..really liked that Feb issue with Molly Hatch's work and the vases that were slightly erotic. What we saw was Functional vs. someones Fart called "Art". Stuff you can use rather than dust or have to explain it's intent. Etc..etc..etc. La ti da....

When we perused the March issue...gasp.....total opposite! Without picking out any specific "work"....we had to laugh and say "well..the writer >should< be happy this month!" Egads...... some of those peices are such a waste of clay and space and the energy it took to make/fire them it isn't even funny...
Page after page it was like ..um..."WTF???" (my wife made the comment "don't eat the brown acid")

so yeah....funny things...those perspectives and opinions.... and those magazines too

teardrop

[phill]

teardrop, on 21 March 2012 - 06:42 AM, said:

Yes...attitudes and perspectives are funny things. Ceramics Monthly is a great example.
What was funny was WE....as noobs..really liked that Feb issue with Molly Hatch's work and the vases that were slightly erotic. What we saw was Functional vs. someones Fart called "Art". Stuff you can use rather than dust or have to explain it's intent. Etc..etc..etc. La ti da....

so yeah....funny things...those perspectives and opinions.... and those magazines too

Ceramics has such a rich history in both functional and sculptural realms. I agree with you and also enjoy seeing the functional pots displayed in the magazines. I wish they did more functional parts, as most of the magazines seem to mainly show sculptural works.

[Red Rocks]

Pres, on 05 February 2012 - 07:03 PM, said:

phill, on 05 February 2012 - 04:52 PM, said:

Pres, on 05 February 2012 - 10:29 AM, said:

I've had this argument before, years ago. A woman, fellow potter, came to my booth and said my work was underpriced. I asked her how many mugs she could throw in and hr. I was able to tell her that I was throwing 5 more than her per hr. I asked how long that she figured it took her to trim and handle that hr of work. I was able to do mine in 3/4 the time. Then I asked how long it took to wax and glaze the work for firing, again less time for me. My final question was am I underprice-she just sputtered. Now, I find that I am taking more time to complete the mugs as back then, I take a little more care in shaping as my forms have become a little more complex, I also take a little more time in finishing the bottoms and signing, I also take a little more time with the glazing as I don't allow the heavy drips as in old, and I take a little more time in cleaning the bottoms in the fired ware. I charge more than 10 years ago, but most of that is probably eaten up by inflation-something we all need to take into account as time goes on, and another reason for a mathematical approach.

interesting comment pres. i find that the most important factor in pricing comes down to my eye for meaningful work. i just saw a Svend Bayer video last night and couldn't agree more with him when he said that making nice pots has nothing to do with the technique and craftsmanship. have you considered this aspect?

respectfully,
phill

teardrop-- thanks for standing up for me. i enjoy forums when there are a lot of differences being openly expressed.

Quite often in fact. I have often wondered about the piece that stands hand and shoulders above all of the others. It is basically the same form, the same colors, same decoration and handles as the others, but for some reason it stands out as being superior. The problem is, do I price it higher because I believe it to be better-as if it were a One-in-a-Thousand Winchester rifle, or do I price it like all of the rest? Or even sell it at all. In the end I sell it at the same price as all of the others because it is my sense of aesthetic being pleased, not the purchaser. Do the sell faster than their brothers-No, because beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If you are selling your pottery for a price you require and you are satisfied with it then by all means do so. Myself, as I am always insecure in my pricing choose to use some formulae to help me arrive at a solution that works for me-at least minimally, and if I need to add a little more for my own ego, I do so.

I would say that the one that stands out as superior – is a gift from the kiln gods. If it stands out to you, it is also going to stand out to the customer who has a heightened sense of appreciation and who is willing to pay more for superior work. So by all means - price it higher, give it to someone you care about or keep it at home. Long time ago, my wife started picking the special gifts from the kiln gods and our house has many of the best pots I ever made because she has more sense than I do.

[Red Rocks]

I started out as a potter in the 70’s and did serious production pottery for 8 years. I did all the big shows back in the day – Ann Arbor, Gold Coast, Ashville, Nashville and the biggies in Florida in the winter. Then for family reasons I quit and eventually ended up in the high end software business selling six and seven figure deals to Fortune 500 companies. Now 25 years later, I am in the process of building a new studio in Sedona, AZ.

I share this background as I just read thru the whole pricing thread and felt it would be important to provide a view from a totally different angle. Everyone is sensitive about pricing – pricing is an emotional issue! Even in corporate America when it is not a product you designed and built yourself – people and teams struggle over how to price their product. Sales people when asked directly about their price usually take a big gulp and try to evade the question because it is a sensitive subject and they fear rejection.

If I learned anything it is this – make a great product, believe in what you make, price it for what you believe it is really worth and have the courage to look the customer in the eye when asked about the price.

Mike

[LilyT]

Red Rocks, on 12 August 2012 - 11:15 PM, said:

I started out as a potter in the 70’s and did serious production pottery for 8 years. I did all the big shows back in the day – Ann Arbor, Gold Coast, Ashville, Nashville and the biggies in Florida in the winter. Then for family reasons I quit and eventually ended up in the high end software business selling six and seven figure deals to Fortune 500 companies. Now 25 years later, I am in the process of building a new studio in Sedona, AZ.

I share this background as I just read thru the whole pricing thread and felt it would be important to provide a view from a totally different angle. Everyone is sensitive about pricing – pricing is an emotional issue! Even in corporate America when it is not a product you designed and built yourself – people and teams struggle over how to price their product. Sales people when asked directly about their price usually take a big gulp and try to evade the question because it is a sensitive subject and they fear rejection.

If I learned anything it is this – make a great product, believe in what you make, price it for what you believe it is really worth and have the courage to look the customer in the eye when asked about the price.

Mike

Mike, I read your post, and was moved to comment because of
how insightful it was.

Good advice in general, not just for pottery!

Warmly,

-Lily

[Red Rocks]

LilyT, on 13 August 2012 - 01:27 AM, said:

Red Rocks, on 12 August 2012 - 11:15 PM, said:

I started out as a potter in the 70’s and did serious production pottery for 8 years. I did all the big shows back in the day – Ann Arbor, Gold Coast, Ashville, Nashville and the biggies in Florida in the winter. Then for family reasons I quit and eventually ended up in the high end software business selling six and seven figure deals to Fortune 500 companies. Now 25 years later, I am in the process of building a new studio in Sedona, AZ.

I share this background as I just read thru the whole pricing thread and felt it would be important to provide a view from a totally different angle. Everyone is sensitive about pricing – pricing is an emotional issue! Even in corporate America when it is not a product you designed and built yourself – people and teams struggle over how to price their product. Sales people when asked directly about their price usually take a big gulp and try to evade the question because it is a sensitive subject and they fear rejection.

If I learned anything it is this – make a great product, believe in what you make, price it for what you believe it is really worth and have the courage to look the customer in the eye when asked about the price.

Mike

Mike, I read your post, and was moved to comment because of
how insightful it was.

Good advice in general, not just for pottery!

Warmly,

-Lily

Thanks, Lily. The net is once we get good at this, we shouldn't be afraid to price our work so that we can make an excellent living. There are not many people who can do this and do it well.